PANOS TSOUPIDES President of the Greek Postal Savings Bank

United World. Could you give us a brief presentation of the Greek Postal Savings Bank, an institution with a history that throughout the years has gone under so many changes? The previous government had a mission for the bank but this government has another goal and that is why they've assigned you here. Could you try to explain to our readers the main objective and the methods as head of this bank?

Panos Tsoupides : I believe that there is a great difference of the previous versus the current government with regards to the objectives behind the Greek Postal Savings Bank. It is very clear that the new administration wants to sustain, maintain but at the same time modernize the organization and in the future list it in the Greek Stock Exchange. In order to achieve this there are certain goals that have been set:

The first goal is to gain value. The 20-25% IPO offer will give us the opportunity to gain value (cash and commercial).
The second goal of the government is to ensure a politically calm environment amongst the employees of the organization
The third and maybe the most important goal is to ensure that the Greek Postal Savings Bank will maintain its historical pedigree. Since its establishment 102 years ago, this institution is addressed to lower classes and geographically low-income population. This is the ¨reason for being¨ of GPSB and this is what it will continue to be. But we want to rejuvenate its character and update it in terms of products and services.

In order to make the bank ready for the Stock Exchange by 2005-2006 there is a need to implement changes; how are you going to modernize this bank and what our your top priorities? You want to offer new products, financial services to your existing clientele and that you have got a dormant clientele that you want to revive. What are your plans and how will you execute them?

This institution is facing a gradual and constant decrease in market share deposits. Today we have a 8.5% of the market (vs 21.5% in 1984)- which is reflected to 9 billion euros in deposits and 2.5 million accounts, with an average size of 3.000euro per costumer. This means that we have the basics but we have to improve. I believe we can achieve this simply through our people. It may sound odd, but the fact that the average age of our employee is 49 years old, for us is not a drawback but it is an asset. Let me explain: I have gone to many of our branches and I've seen how this employee works. Our 50-year-old cashier lady knows her customers extremely well, they talk to each other, and she knows the nitty-gritty of her customer and families. …Knows their problems. Isn't it what customer services is all about???? Isn't what all multinational banks are striving for? The problem is that our cashier doesn't sell!

So there is a factor here that could be an advantage compared to other banks…

It is a potential power. If we manage to facilitate these people with relevant products and services, train them accordingly and provide them with incentives, then I am sure this is going to be the ´´fire´´ of the institution. Adding to this, age will not be a negative but a positive stance of expertise and mileage. Usually the typical management scenario when someone joins a state owned organization is patronizing and distant. And usually the case is that the employees start to disagree, there is no buy-in on a common goal and the Union takes a key role for rejections and objections. I have a different management philosophy. My priority is to bond people together and to agree with them on mutual goals.

So, it's a big challenge for you isn't it? The union and the workforce, It's a capital for you to have the workers on your side in order to modernize the bank.

Well, they say that wisdom comes with age. It took me several months since I took over to understand into detail the opportunities of this institution, to analyze the situation and to start cooperating with the Bank's Union. I realized that most of the things the employees where worrying about were sound and valid. We have resolved most of the issues involved with many parameters and now I believe that we are ready to step on the gear. Everyone can sense the difference on his or her morale. I never felt that people are different. Irrespective if they work as civil or private employees. At the end of the day they are all people. The difference lies in the way you approach them!

If you know the problem. It can be solved….

And if you have got the time. You need 1-2 years just to make these material transformations. For the total organization to be completely transformed into, lets say, a retail bank- because that's actually what is going to be- it would take 2-3 years. The IPO helps a lot because it gives you a target, a target date…

I would like to share your thoughts about the banking sector in Greece. You do compete in the banking sector in Greece. Could you describe briefly for us how you see the banking sector evolving in the future, how you forsee the banking sector?

The banking sectors here was basically state dominated and fairly calm until 1987, when the market opened through a Deregulation Act, the famous Karatza report; and then it was deregulated. What happened was that interests went up. These 2 to 3 volumes by the Central Bank of Greece with what you are permitted and not permitted to do were gradually abolished, things were left open and new banks started coming in; then the international competition through EEC in Europe. The euro came in and then followed consolidations and expansion to the Balkans that happened the last 8 years or so…

It's curious. I've heard that the use of credit here is very limited when compared to other countries in Europe. Is this true?

This is a cultural thing. Changing the culture is not a thing that could happen within a day. There is a learning curve on everything. The new products and the successful intergraded communication will facilitate this process. Each region has its own characteristics. The Japanese saving mentality is different from the American. I believe that Greece is closer to the American mentality.

I understand that one of the ideas is changing the image…I was wondering, what are the values that you want to associate with the image of the bank? What are the values that you want the Greek people to associate with G.P.S.B?

The G.P.S.B has a long established reputation. It owns many values which is inherent in its brand name; Care, friendliness, human touch. All these values have to come back into surface… with a contemporary way. We are working full speed on this.

There is a modernization that the bank is going through; to show the world it is changing. What policies and changes are happening? One thing is doing it and another is telling the world…

There is the truth and the perception of the truth. But still, perception is reality. Yet you need them both. We need to change things internally and externally. Basically, if we examine the products that are addressed to non-sophisticated clients, they are all over similar. It's the packaging that changes. We plan to offer to people housing loans, more deposit instruments not complex yet easy to appreciate, with competitive rates and then of course communicate them effectively.

Do you feel in any way under the spotlight as an example of a public institution that is going to modernize it and is going to set the example for other public institutions? Because, as you said, Prime Minister Karamanlis in Thessaloniki recently spoke specifically about this bank and what it is going to go through. Do you feel that, if you are successful, other public institutions are going to follow?

I don't like the idea of spotlight very much. It creates shadows. It's not good because bankers always prefer not to stay in the shadows. I don't like it because it puts pressure on you. You will make mistakes and in a very politicized society like the Greek one, people very much often misinterpret things. But, having said that, an, although I am fully certain that as the institution re-appears in the market, we will face all sorts of competition.. And the competition is there …It's a fact.

If you like it or not, competition is there…

There is one thing to be understood here which is unique. It's how we are dealing with it. Not, what we are trying to do, but how we are trying to do it through- it is through the people. The Union of the institution is our big weapon. As I have mentioned before, we have a strong pedigree in Greece, solid reputation that needs an update in terms of its imagery. We have good financial performance and we can deliver interesting products and services. All of this is our ´´ fire ´´. It is a make or break situation. If we don't exploit this fire, this may backfire on us. I believe that we have all the credentials to move ahead.

It is not easy to change this.

In organizations, what happens it that a good thing brings a better thing and it brings an even better thing, and so on…A bad thing, laziness, indifference brings more laziness, more indifference.

However, like this you can easily get into the spotlight. For example, working with the Unions is a unique thing for Greece. Other institutions might follow you and start working with Unions and see that that is the only way forward in order to modernize a public institution…

If we succeed with this approach then I believe it is going to be a tremendous example and a kick off for other similar entities. I am not saying that is going to be an easy task but I am optimistic on this.

Your career has always been in the private sector. You are now in the public sector. Are they two completely different worlds? What attracted you to come to the public sector ? What is the challenge you are looking for?

There is a different challenge for both . In the private sector you have the power of restructuring which is something that can lead you to lay offs, you can promote people easily based on performance. In the public sector
the challenge is if you can transform 1300 people , of an average age 49 years old and make them work effectively. In the beginning the only thing I wanted to just make money for the bank and modernize it. Now I have changed my strategy totally. Now I really want to transform the whole thing. This is very different, very challenging you come to like the people here.

Finalizing our interview, I would like to invite you to address a message as the President of GPSB, to our 3 million readers in the USA, to the American investors, to the American bankers. If you have a direct message to send to them, what would this message be?

I think that Greece showed to the world but also to its people, what can be done if there is a vision and a clear goal. For Greece the success of the Olympic Games has set up a new standard for the country and its citizens. Suddenly the old Greece has vanished and a new Greece came up into surface. The country is going through many changes. The new government is a great believer of doing all the necessary changes that will lead the country to a new frontier. Banking is still under a big evolution in Greece and the opportunities many.

Thank you very much for your much for your comments
Thank you very much