ABDUL MAJID M. ELAGOUD Secretary for the Great Man-Made River Project

United World: Could you please tell us a little about yourself?

Eng. Elgaoud: I am a civil engineer by profession. I graduated from the University in Tripoli in 1966, and I then worked as an engineer in what was called the Ministry of Public Works at the time. This was followed by a position as Chief Engineer of the Municipality of Tripoli, and I was then appointed as the mayor Tripoli. After that, I became the Minister of Agricultural Development, followed by Minister of Liaison (between the Libyan Leader and other departments), as well as Minister of Nuclear Energy. I then went back to being Minister of Agriculture, moved on to being Prime Minister, and finally ended up here at the Great Man-Made River Project. From my professional point of view, I very much enjoyed the Ministry of Nuclear Energy and my current position. The reason is that when I contact my staff, I learn from them. I am exposed to excellent engineers in the country and most of the time, they have better ideas than I do, and so I learn from them. These are the sectors where I gained something from personally, since arriving here in 1998.

United World: In the seven years you have spent here, what have you achieved that you are particularly proud of?

Eng. Elgaoud: That would be the completion of Phase II of the project, which is the most important phase and which presented big technical challenges. In 1991, we faced big problems with Phase I, involving some of the white pipes (which are pre-pressed cylinder pipes, which have no type of coating). The consultants at the time in the early 1980s proposed that 60% of the pipes of that phase should be white because according to their calculations, they could save at least 100 million dollars in costs for coating them. The criteria in their opinion were that there is no precipitation or rainfall and that the water table is deeper than 10 meters. The desert soil is full of carbonates and chlorides and so on, but these elements are not corrosive, as long as it's completely dry. However, when it became moist, the pipes would corrode and the consultants ignored that the real enemy was the water running through the pipes. We have 250 thousand pipes in Phase I and any type of leak anywhere would make the condition of the soil corrosive. In 1999 and 2000, we had five serious bursts and each one cost us nearly one million dollars. We were facing a real problem at that time, which was the bankruptcy of the main Korean contractor. So we had two major issues at hand. I think we managed it all very well by exhausting all available resources, including our own engineers with the help of a group of researchers in Canada and other countries. We rehabilitated the entire first phase by installing a machine that gives out electro-magnetic waves, which allows us to identify where the problems are and to fix them. It was a great challenge and we met it with great pride.

United World: What can you tell us about the cost of the Great Man-Made River project and its worth for the Libyan people?

Eng. Elgaoud: The project so far has cost us $14 billion. I am aware of the criticism, but the reality is that we need water and we need it in a way that will cost less in the long run. What are the alternatives? We have had about 36 desalination plants running in the country since 1969, before the revolution. The end product cost of 1 cubic meter of water in that is about USD 1.50, while with the Great Man-Made River project, the same amount of water costs just USD 0.24. The figures speak for themselves. The other options, like importing from Europe are even more costly and politically unstable perhaps; if there's ever a dispute between us, we can't exactly tell the people to wait for their water needs until the problem is settled! We have the water reserves buried in the desert and we needed a way to get it to the people. This is what we did. I am proud of the fact that operations management and maintenance was fully handled by Libyans from the 1980s till the late 1990s.

United World: In what ways has the Great Man-Made River Project contributed to the country?

Eng. Elgaoud: First and foremost was the arrival of fresh water to domestic households. From Tripoli to Benghazi, all the cities and villages are mainly supplies from the river. The heating systems and other water facilities in households used to break down within a year because the water used to be salty. Today things have changed thanks to the fresh water supply from the desert. Public utilities like hospitals and schools also benefited; 10 years ago, children couldn't use the toilets in schools because there was no water. People had to drive about 15km outside Tripoli to get fresh water, which they filled in barrels and brought back home. Drinking water was also a problem; we never had good quality water that could be used by manufacturers to sell to people. Again, this changed. In agriculture, things have massively improved as well; we were in serious danger of further desertification of our land. The availability of water affects the development of almost all sectors of our economy.

United World: Would you consider exporting your water to neighboring countries?

Eng. Elgaoud: Not at this time. A study was conducted for our reservoirs, and we found that there are two aquifers. We have the Nubian sandstone aquifer (a geological formation extending from Western Cameroon to Eastern Palestine) in the south-east part of Libya, around Kufra. A joint committee was composed under the umbrella of the United Nations, and with the help of the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD), to study this aquifer within four countries, which include Libya, Egypt, Sudan and Chad. This study took place five years ago with the help of European countries. The program studied the requirements of water in all four countries for all sectors, including agricultural, industrial and commercial use. According to the plans that each country has projected for the next eleven years, the result of the evaluation indicates that the quantity of water within the Nubian sandstone Aquifer will last 4860 years, at the current rate of exploitation in all four countries. Our neighbors are using the same source of water, so there's no need to export to them.

United World: What are the most exciting investment opportunities that are available in this project today?

Eng. Elgaoud: We have three different aspects. The first is the utilization of the water within agriculture. Eighteen months ago we started telling American investors about some opportunities in that sector. Africa is in a time where it's being considered as a potential green corridor by the European Union, for production and export. Europe is also facing a problem with illegal immigration, so they are thinking it would be better to invest and develop other countries to give them less incentive to leave. In Libya now, the water is available for agriculture, but there has been little investment in utilizing it for such projects. Another area for investment in this field is in pipe manufacturing. We are in the final stage of the implementation of the whole project. We need to keep one or two of our own lines of production for the future, but we have three other that we would like to covert to fiber glass pipe manufacturing plants. It's a very good technology that can be used for sewers and irrigation schemes and it's very easy to export them to neighboring regions like the Gulf. We are in the primary stages of establishing a joint-venture business with an American company in that regard. The third investment opportunity is to participate in the manufacturing of the impermeable membranes around our reservoirs.

United World: What do you foresee as your biggest challenges in the future of this project?

Eng. Elgaoud: On a personal level, I would like to retire, I am 62-years old and I've been working for 40 years. Professionally with this project, there are two main worries. Firstly, we have the problem of corrosion of pipes and their possible bursts, as they happened in Phase I of the project. Whilst we have found a way to constantly monitor and fix any sudden bursts of pipes, the question that remains is until when can we do this? The problem with corrosion will continue to exist. The other foreseeable challenge is the need in the future, with Phase V of the project, to monitor the behavior of the aquifers; we have certain assumptions that the drawdown should not exceed a certain level and that the water quality is within that level. The wells need to be followed-up day-by-day. If the wells dry up due to wrong assumptions or bad management, it would be a catastrophe. However, indications so far are very good and drawdown of water is well below the limit we assumed.

United World: What can you tell us about Libya today, where it stands and how it's developing?

Eng. Elgaoud: We had very good relations with the US in the past; they are ones who discovered oil here. There is potential for creating excellent cooperation between the two countries on all things ranging from political to commercial and financial activities. It can create a good example within the region, and all parties need to cooperate honestly and respectfully. I think that Libya is ready for US investors but this cannot be done with an ocean between us, Americans should visit Libya and learn more about us.

United World: Thank you very much for your comments.

Eng. Elgaoud: Thank you.